Favorite Herodotus stories?
Dear Herodotus fans,
What are your favorite stories from Books 2 & 3? Reply with just a few words!
I crack up when I read his Cat in the Hat version of Egyptian customs: “The Egyptians eat out in the street and go to the bathroom inside their houses…” “The men squat, the women stand up” etc.
Andre
Daniel Mendelsohn’s “The Lost…”
Daniel Mendelsohn, classicicst and professor of humanities at Bard, has written a beautiful, sad book that I strongly recommend each of us read.
The book – The Lost: A Search for Six of Six Million – chronicles his lifelong quest to find his six relatives who perished in The Holocaust.
Written in a “ring” style much like Herodotus and Homer, the book contains commentaries and references to these great works and to The Old Testament. His digressions into The Old Testament include discussions from some of the great Hebrew scholars – medieval and contemporary – and they complement well our reading of Genesis.
Get his book.
Phil
P.S. Thanks to David Schrieberg, executive at AOL Europe, for recommending this book to me.
Was Pythagoras a “has bean” or not?
According to How & Wells, many of Herodotus’ claims in these sections of Egyptian customs must be taken with a grain of salt. For instance, his generalizations are simply that, generalizations and not representative of all Egyptians (especially the upper class).
Certain customs, however, seemed to ring a bell for me, especially those that relate to the philosopher/mathematician Pythagoras (from How & Wells, vol. I, p. 183): “Herodotus is right that the priests were forbidden to eat fish. This food might not be offered in sacrifice; hence the Pythagorean refusal to eat fish may have come from Egypt…H. is right that the priests did not eat beans” and so neither did Pythagoras nor his followers.
Indeed, the Pythagorean cult kept its silence about many rituals, like the Egyptian priests did and like modern college fraternities/sororities do. However, this religiosity coexisted with brilliant insights into mathematics and music. Were the Egyptian priests masters of mathematics? Are the pyramids proof of this or not?
Schedule, edition for The Old Testament
We have started our long-awaited reading of The Old Testament. The schedule of calls is noted below.
We’ll be reading The New Oxford Annotated Bible
All calls are Tuesdays at 8pm NYC time
at this call-in number
1-800-615-2900
11215
– Tuesday, March 27
Call 1 Genesis
– Tuesday, May 1
Call 2 Exodus
– Tuesday, June 12
Call 3 Lev, Numbers, Deut
– Tuesday, July 17
Call 4 Joshua, Judges, Ruth
– Tuesday, Aug 14
Call 5 Samuel 1 & 2
– Tuesday, Sept 11
Call 6 Kings 1 & 2
– Tuesday, Oct 30
Call 7 Chronicles 1 & 2
– Tuesday, Nov 27
Call 8 Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther
– Tuesday, Nov 27
Call 8: Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther
Call 9: Job and 1/2 of Psalms – Tuesday, February 5
Call 10: 1/2 of Psalms and Proverbs – Tuesday, March 4
Call 11: Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon
Notes to start Herodotus
Dear all,
I have attached some notes relating to our Introductory call and our book 1 discussion. Please look them over if you would like to get acquainted with what we have discussed so far on reading Herodotus and his basic aims.
Andre
Questions for Books 2 & 3
Greetings fellow readers of Herodotus,
As we read through Books 2 & 3, here are three questions to consider, which we will use to guide the discussion on Monday March 5. Think about these and any other questions you might have for our next discussion. Feel free to respond to the ro2@creativegood.com listserv with observations, questions, comments and witty quips between now and then if you would like to initiate an email discussion sooner.
Books 2 & 3 Discussion Questions
1. Book 2 – How & Wells, in their Oxford commentary, remark: “As Herodotus introduces his long digression on Egypt with a reference to the conquest of the Greeks (c. I. 2), so he skilfully concludes with a similar reference.” (p. 256) Even with such an erudite observation, one may still be wondering ‘what does any of Book 2 have to do with the Persian invasion of Greece?’ Let’s look at it from Herodotus’ Hellenocentric point of view. What do Herodotus’ observations tell about Herodotus as a Greek? Are his observations an attempt to re-define Egypt according to Greek culture? or is Herodotus too much influenced by Egyptian culture to make accurate statements in his History?
2. Book 3 – The rise and fall of Cambyses – How does Herodotus measure the sanity of Cambyses? How does Cambyses take advice and counsel in comparison with his precedessor Cyrus?
3. Book 3 – The rise of Darius – How should we view the transfer of power from Cambyses to Darius? Is this a monarchy? despotism? tyranny? oligarchy?
Andre
P.S. Tonight – Monday, February 19 – I’m leading a quick orientation for several readers who are joining us now. The call is at 8pm NYC time – 1-800-615-2900 / 11215.
Athens-Sparta Exhibit review
Folks,
Pat Wictor, Shawn Budde and I went to the Athens-Sparta exhibt at the Onassis Cultural Center in NY, yesterday, Friday, February 16.
We were all amazed by the quality of this small exhibit – there were a number of items that have either never left Greece or are simply famous pieces from Athens *and* Sparta. The surprise – and hook – of the show is the focus on Spartan art in the period before 550-500 BC (when art production seemed to stop in Sparta).
We were lucky in our timing because we were able to tag along on a tour given by classics doctoral student at Columbia – Todd Alexander Davis. Todd was great and deserves special thanks for allowing us to listen in on his *very* good lecture. Visit his student page at Columbia and send him a note of thanks.
Some of the best pieces include the famous statue of a hoplite warrior – photo above courtesy of the Onassis Cultural Center website – that is popularly believed to be Leonidas, the Spartan King who led the 300 Spartan warriors in the battle at Thermopylae. [1]
The show is on until May 16, 2007 – and is a must see if you can get to NY before it closes.
Phil
1 – Note that most experts – including Paul Cartledge – now believe that the statue is not of Leonidas but of a regular hoplite soldier. Nonetheless, it is still a famous statue. Todd said that there were even demonstrations by the local Spartan population trying to prevent it leaving Sparta to come to this exhibit.
Welcome, midstream orientation
Welcome new readers to our Herodotus reading group (currently in progress, Books 2 & 3)!
For the new readers joining us now, we have set up a brief conference call – to orient you and help you join us midstream – for this coming Monday evening at 8pm NYC time.
Please note the following dial information for this call (and all of our calls)
Monday February 19
8pm (NYC time)
1-800-615-2900 / 11215
Looking forward to speaking with you all,
Andre
Moderator-in-training
Reading Odyssey
How are books 2 & 3 going?
Folks,
Just wanted to do a quick check in.
How are Books 2 and 3 going? Are you impressed with Herodotus’ AAA travel brochure for Greeks vacationing in Egypt? Perhaps you have a sudden inclination to watch the movie “The English Patient” again? Don’t worry, it happens to the best of us.
Do you have any questions/comments?
I’ll be getting the reading questions out soon – sorry for the delay.
Hope you are well!
Andre
A question about dieties
Several times in Book Two Herodotus describes an Egyptian practice, but refuses to “name names”:
p. 149 (132) “Once a year, at the festival on which Egyptians beat themselves in honour of that deity whom I must not name in this connexion…”
p. 165 (170) “Here too, in Athene’s precinct at Sais, is the tomb of one whose name I prefer not to mention in such a connexion;”
p. 165 (171) “It is on this lake that the Egyptians act by night in what they call their Mysteries the Passion of that being whose name I will not speak. All the details of these performances are known to me, but – I will say no more. Similarly I propose to hold my tongue about the mysterious rites of Demeter…”
I find this very amusing when elsewhere he feels free to share gossipy tales and state strong opinions on which Egyptian customs he does or doesn’t approve of. Who is he being so coy about?
Lisa Q.
01. March 2007 by Arrian
Categories: Commentary, Herodotus | Tags: Herodotus | 1 comment