Book 1 call themes and recording
Folks,
We had a great call yesterday discussing Thucydides Book 1.
Key themes that emerged for us included:
– Origins of the Athenian Empire (and some background that Thucydides did not include about the Delian League)
– People, place and identity – how Thucydides refers to Greeks, Corinthians, Pelopenesians, etc
– The question of the start date and end date of the war – is it somewhat arbitrary to date it the way Thucydides does given that Greek civil war occured before and after the end of the war Thucydides describes?
– The question of the inevitability of war – Thucydides argues that because of growing Athenian power it was inevitable for Sparta and Athens to go to war. We discussed whether we agreed with his point-of-view
– Human nature and historical causality – are greed and fear the key drivers behind all human events, or at least behind wars?
Here’s the recording:
Download Thucydidese-03-11-06-Book1.m4a
Take a listen if you missed it. Please respond to this post with any thoughts.
Phil
P.S. Our next call on Book 2 will be Saturday, April 1 at 12 noon New York time (yes, it’s April Fools but we are doing the call 😉
Thucydides Book 1 call
Folks,
We have our next call – on Book 1 –
Saturday, 3/11 @ 12PM New York Time (9AM California Time)
1-800-615-2900
1-661-705-2005 (for callers outside the USA and Canada)
code: 11215
What do you think so far?
Phil
Book One – questions for 1.1 – 1.23
As you read the early sections of Book One – especially 1.1 to 1.23 – consider Thucydides’ philosophy and biases. Keep in mind that Thucydides was a precise writer and that every word, every section serves a purpose. Ask yourself “why is he writing this”?
In our kickoff call, we discussed the extent to which Thucydides, an exiled Athenian general, was biased in favor of the Athenians. Thucydides certainly sought to understand the war from different perspectives. Further, he was reportedly criticized within Athens for a Spartan bias in his writing. So, does he have an Athenian bias?
In Book One, Thucydides provide an apology for Athens empire when in section 1.2, he describes Attica’s poor soil and how it led to overcrowding and the establishment of colonies. He says that because of its poor surrounding soil, Athens was safe from invasion (who would want it?) so it became a safe haven for Greek refugees fleeing wars in their home cities.
“The most powerful victims of war or faction from the rest of Hellas took refuge with the Athenians as a safe retreat; and at an early period, becoming naturalized, swelled the already large population of the city to such a height that Attica became at last too small to hold them, and they had to send out colonies to Ionia.”
It’s almost as if Thucydides is saying to the rest of Greece – you created the Athenian empire through making Athens your place of safe retreat and forcing it to create colonies to handle your “teeming masses.”
What do you see in Book One that reveals Thucydides biases or underlying philosophy? What do you make of his writing on naval power and piracy? Read each section and ask yourself “why is Thucydides saying this”?
Phil
A day at the opera – Lysistrata
Nancy Kopans, reading odyssey group member and opera fan, has suggested that we go to the Opera together to see Lysistrata – Aristpohanes’ third play in his “War and Peace” series set during the Peloponessian war.
The women of Athens, led by Lysistrata and supported by female delegates from the other states of Hellas, determine to take matters into their own hands and force the men to stop the War. They meet in solemn conclave, and Lysistrata expounds her scheme, the rigorous application to husbands and lovers of a self-denying ordinance–“we must refrain from the male altogether.” Every wife and mistress is to refuse all sexual favours whatsoever, till the men have come to terms of peace.
Lysistrata
*Sunday*, April 2
1:30
$89 each (we’d like to buy 2nd ring center seats for $89 each)
Please reply and let me know if you’d like to attend.
Thanks!
Phil
———- Background on the play
Here’s the link to City Opera for Lysistrata
Thucydides kickoff recording
Folks,
The recording of our kickoff call on Thucydides is now available:
Thucydides kickoff call
Thank you for the great call today to kickoff Thucydides. We touched on key themes concerning Herodotus and Thucydides, Thucydides historic method/bias/style, the relevance of Thucydides to America today, Iraq war, WW1, the Cold War, and the power of Thucydides’ commitment to write “for all time.”
Next steps:
— Thucydides Book 1
We are officially kicking off reading Book 1 of “The Landmark Thucydides” by Robert Strassler
— Recording of the call
The recording will be up in a day or so. I’ll send an email when it’s ready to be listened to.
— Book review
Victor Davis Hanson, who wrote the introduction to our “Landmark Thucydides” book, also recently published his own book on the Peloponnesian War. The New York Times reviewed the book and in the review discussed Hanson’s perspective on Athens of the fifth century and its relevance to the U.S. of the 21st century.
“WHY should a distinguished classical scholar like Victor Davis Hanson provide us with yet another book about the Peloponnesian War? He is in no doubt: he is writing a tract for the times. ‘Perhaps never,’ he insists, ‘has the Peloponnesian War been more relevant to Americans than to us of the present age.’ “
see the NY Times review here.
— Next call: Saturday, March 11 at 12 noon
Our next call will be Saturday, March 11 at 12 noon; we’ll focus on Book 1
— Field trip to the opera
Nancy Kopans is going to suggest some dates to go to the opera in NY; more on this soon.
— Field trip to the Met/Dinner with a professor
I’m going to organize a field trip to the Met/dinner with one of the professors for sometime this summer (possibly around my 40th birthday! – more on that soon).
Thanks!
Phil
Next book: Thucydides
I’m sorry it’s been so long since you have heard from me. In addition to the normal holiday madness, reading group co-founder (and my best friend), Pat, got married recently and I was his best man.
Not only did Pat get married but he got married twice – once on the west coast and once here in brooklyn (to the same woman ;-).
So, please join me in congratulating Pat.
We are ready to start our next book (and, briefly discuss Aeschylus) so please let us know who will be joining.
Our kickoff call will be
Saturday, Feb 25
12 noon new york time.
Call-in details to follow.
Meanwhile, if you are joining us for this book, please buy or borrow this version:
The Landmark Thucydides
Robert B. Strassler
This version has GREAT maps and wonderful summaries in the margin (each paragraph is summarized in plain English in the margin).
Hope you had a good holiday and a happy new year. Good to be back!
Phil
P.S. This book is extraordinarily timely and has been referenced much in the debate about the Iraq war and America’s role in the world.
Eric Rosensweig
Before joining TripAdvisor as SVP of Business Development, Eric Rosenzweig spent two years as Executive Vice President at SideStep and prior to that he was at Travelocity for two-and-a-half years, most recently as Vice President of Business and Corporate Development. Before Travelocity, Rosenzweig was with Preview Travel. Rosenzweig earned M.B.A. and J.D. degrees from the University of California, Berkeley and a bachelor of arts degree from Harvard University.
Aeschylus update
Folks,
How’s the reading of “The Persians” going?
Phil
P.S. We went to the Harvard Club in New York last night to hear a Professor lecture on Ovid, the Roman poet. It was GREAT. Can’t wait until we read Ovid (the professor agreed to come onto the phone and speak to us).
Next call – Book 2
Folks,
Our next call on Book 2 of Thucydides is planned for:
– Saturday, April 1
– 12 noon
– 1-800-615-2900/ 11215
Meanwhile, take a look at this recent DNA analysis performed by Dr. Manolis Papagrigorakis, Assistant Prof Univ of Athens School of Dentistry. She examined dental records of plague victims and discovered definitive evidence of Typhoid Fever.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/news/content.asp?aid=65444
or this report from the BBC, Typhoid ’caused fall of Athens’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4639840.stm
Phil
26. March 2006 by Arrian
Categories: Commentary, Thucydides | Comments Off on Next call – Book 2